#57: Building a Company You Actually Want to Work For with Carl Erickson

Freedom isn’t just about money — it’s about how you build the place you spend half your life. Most founders miss what true ownership can unlock until they’re already stuck.

Carl Erickson started Atomic Object after a failed startup imploded. He turned it into one of the most admired software consultancies out there by making employees owners from day one. Over twenty years, Carl pushed extreme programming, radical pairing, and direct ownership, building a company designed to last a century.

In this episode, Carl breaks down how Extreme Programming rewired their culture, why he rejected ESOPs for a more direct model, and how “Give a Shit” and “Own It” became more than just slogans — they transformed employees into real owners.

We talk about:
🔹 Why extreme programming transformed more than just software quality
🔹 How pairing goes beyond developers — even Atomic’s co-CEOs are a pair
🔹 The hidden cost of ignoring culture in fast-growing companies
🔹 How Carl created a direct employee ownership plan that builds wealth for non-founders
🔹 Why hiring for cultural fit is essential — and how Atomic avoided “cowboys” and prima donnas
🔹 What it takes to protect a 100-year vision in the face of outside offers
🔹 How freedom after exit means choosing how you spend your days with purpose

Whether you’re building a consultancy, scaling a startup, or planning your own exit, this conversation is a masterclass in creating a culture and ownership structure that outlasts you.

Quotes from the Episode:
💬 "Extreme programming isn’t just coding faster — it’s building trust, quality, and culture."
💬 "Give a shit. Own it. Those are the two most important things we look for in people."
💬 "Companies become reflections of their founders — for better or worse."
💬 "Freedom is flexibility: the ability to do what you care about, without worrying about money."

Actionable Takeaways:
✅ Don’t wait to codify your values — they’re already there in how your team behaves
✅ Consider direct ownership plans if you want employees to truly act like owners
✅ Focus on strategic principles like “Great, Not Big” instead of arbitrary growth targets
✅ Build your company’s culture intentionally — it’s easier than fixing it later
✅ Remember: growth should be a byproduct of excellence, not the goal itself

Resources from this episode:
→ Connect with Carl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-erickson
→ Learn about Atomic Object: https://atomicobject.com
→ Carl’s blog “Great Not Big”: https://greatnotbig.com

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🎧 For more conversations on culture, ownership, and building companies that last, visit www.jeanmoncrieff.com.